Megi's Jazz Odyssey - the return

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  • ESBlondeESBlonde Posts: 830Member
    ReaGeorge said:

    Megi said:

    I've known him for decades, and he was always good. And it is helpful to have people like that around in the end.

    I think it's SO valuable to know and be able to play with people who are essentially better than you, something that so far I've felt laking in my life, not because I'm particularly good, more because I don't get out enough or have any friends :P

    Yes absolutely, you always need to play with your betters or those you respect if you want to improve. That's not to say you shouldn't play with those on the way up as well, they need encouragement and you are thier inspiration. Remember you can learn from any guitaist/musician, even if it's just how not to do it! If they are gigging and you are watching, you are not better than them at all things.

    Christmas eve I shall be in my local pub playing behind the landlord ( I have lots of friends who are landlords!), his timing is awful, his chord knowledge is limited and he struggles to sing in tune, one of the other regulars is a little better but they jam together often in private. All the local musicians will form a band and have a laugh, everyone will enjoy themselves and christmas will carry on regardless.
  • LesterLester Posts: 1,536Member, Moderator
    edited December 7
    I agree with what is being said. I am only sorry that I learnt this from playing squash rather than guitar. There was a time when I had two regular opponents, one better than me and the other maybe just a tad behind me. I loved playing with (or against) both of them because the one better than me forced me to push myself to my limit while the other one enabled me to try out things I had learnt by playing the better player but without the pressure and so I could hone certain tactics so that they became more instinctive. That set me a goal for guitar playing. I am so pleased to have made the discovery but finding other guitar players to play with is not so easy, something I need to work on.
  • MegiMegi Posts: 6,877Member
    edited December 7
    Great that this interesting topic has come up unexpectedly - I do like what you've said about squash there Lester. And ES makes a very true point, and of course it's impossible for everyone to always be in a playing situation where the others are more advanced.

    Anyhow, just to perhaps add the "other side of the coin", and not to disagree with anything, but I have recently taken the decision to give my notice to a band I've played in for a few years. I don't hold myself up as superior at all, and the band in question are capable of playing very well BUT... at least for me, they often don't reach that level, and there can be numerous frustrating issues - not keeping good time, inappropriate slow tempos, wrong bass notes, I could go on believe me, but won't. This seems all the more annoying given what I know they are capable of, but time has shown that this is just the way things are.

    And also, to be fair, it was never the sort of music that really appealed to me, although I could enjoy it at times. It all started to become a chore for me to go to the weekly gig, and I really do feel it was starting to do more harm than good to my playing - I put it like that, because I happy to acknowledge playing in the band has taught me useful things. Second time I've had to leave a band in the last 10 years, so perhaps I'm not doing too badly, but sometimes for one's own long term good as a musician, selfish or not, it has to be done.
  • nicholaspaulnicholaspaul Posts: 718Member
    Oh yea, that “tone is in the fingers” is a good one to drive people nuts. Drives me nuts when people ask about gear and someone says that. You can hear the eyes rolling! Yea, ok, let’s all buy one guitar, one amp and a pedal and never talk about gear again because it’s all in the fingers!

    Re: pro friends, my buddy is actually a good few years younger than me so I’m doubly frustrated! He is a super nice chap and works extremely hard at it. Good thing too! He does make it all look sickeningly easy though.
  • MegiMegi Posts: 6,877Member
    Talented, hard working young people eh! What can one do? :D I always take some consolation in the thought that music is about expressing something real and individual, and not a competition. I'm the best me there will ever be. :)
  • MegiMegi Posts: 6,877Member
    Re tone is in the fingers - I'd say a nuanced position is that if the finger thing isn't there, then the tone won't be either, no matter what the gear. But if it is, then the differences between bits of gear become worth exploring.
  • nicholaspaulnicholaspaul Posts: 718Member
    Megi said:

    Talented, hard working young people eh! What can one do? :D I always take some consolation in the thought that music is about expressing something real and individual, and not a competition. I'm the best me there will ever be. :)

    Well said! You can try being someone else , but that job is already taken!
    Be the best you. Best plan!
    Megi said:

    Re tone is in the fingers - I'd say a nuanced position is that if the finger thing isn't there, then the tone won't be either, no matter what the gear. But if it is, then the differences between bits of gear become worth exploring.

    Fingers do help, that’s true. Isn’t it technically between the fret and the saddle, though?
    I don’t know.. I’m just trying to play the thing and make fewer mistakes...
  • MegiMegi Posts: 6,877Member


    Fingers do help, that’s true. Isn’t it technically between the fret and the saddle, though?
    I don’t know.. I’m just trying to play the thing and make fewer mistakes...

    Hmm - I suppose in theory, but in practice it seems that the player makes a huge difference. There are a lot of variables - pick or fingers, type of pick if used, where the strings are picked, how they are picked - this one really covers a mass of possibilities. And then just overall control of the guitar - being in fine control of all the nuance of tone, volume, phrasing etc. - I think does have a lot to do with how we perceive "tone" in general. But "tone" is an annoying word in a way, and too much talked about on guitar forums perhaps, by people like me, who would be better off practicing... perhaps I'd better leave it at that, and get back to my Barry Greene online video lessons. :)

  • ReaGeorgeReaGeorge Posts: 103Member
    Megi said:

    I think does have a lot to do with how we perceive "tone" in general. But "tone" is an annoying word in a way, and too much talked about on guitar forums perhaps.

    I agree, vocabulary in music (dare I say more so amongst amateurs/hobbyists) is used in a very general way, "Tone" is probably one of the biggest offenders, they don't have specific agreed upon definitions, this can make it very difficult to have productive discussion. Or maybe I just have OCD for things like this and it's just me that gets triggered by it :P
  • nicholaspaulnicholaspaul Posts: 718Member
    Megi said:

    . But "tone" is an annoying word in a way, and too much talked about on guitar forums perhaps, by people like me, who would be better off practicing... perhaps I'd better leave it at that, and get back to my Barry Greene online video lessons. :)

    I agree. Practising is by far the best way to get good 'tone'. You don't need more gear. Listen to Barry :)
    ReaGeorge said:

    Megi said:

    I think does have a lot to do with how we perceive "tone" in general. But "tone" is an annoying word in a way, and too much talked about on guitar forums perhaps.

    I agree, vocabulary in music (dare I say more so amongst amateurs/hobbyists) is used in a very general way, "Tone" is probably one of the biggest offenders, they don't have specific agreed upon definitions, this can make it very difficult to have productive discussion. Or maybe I just have OCD for things like this and it's just me that gets triggered by it :P
    Oo yea. What is good tone and bad tone? If you like a sound surely it's a good tone? Devil's Advocacy aside, I think I know the kinds of sounds people hear when they call it "good tone". Tone is just sound. And if you like it, do it again. And again.

    Think of all the guitarists who sound different. Some are trebly, some are bassy. It's all tone. It's all sound. End of.

    Ok, I really didn't want to perpetuate the tone discussion, just agree that it's ridiculous. I'm done talking about it. That's it.
    Not another...
  • MegiMegi Posts: 6,877Member
    ReaGeorge said:

    Megi said:

    I think does have a lot to do with how we perceive "tone" in general. But "tone" is an annoying word in a way, and too much talked about on guitar forums perhaps.

    I agree, vocabulary in music (dare I say more so amongst amateurs/hobbyists) is used in a very general way, "Tone" is probably one of the biggest offenders, they don't have specific agreed upon definitions, this can make it very difficult to have productive discussion. Or maybe I just have OCD for things like this and it's just me that gets triggered by it :P
    I doubt it's just you Rea! And certainly what's a good or bad tone, is a subjective thing - rather like music in general, there's no objective standard anyhow. Doesn't stop the endless discussions though. :)

  • MegiMegi Posts: 6,877Member
    edited December 15

    Megi said:

    . But "tone" is an annoying word in a way, and too much talked about on guitar forums perhaps, by people like me, who would be better off practicing... perhaps I'd better leave it at that, and get back to my Barry Greene online video lessons. :)

    I agree. Practising is by far the best way to get good 'tone'. You don't need more gear. Listen to Barry :)
    ReaGeorge said:

    Megi said:

    I think does have a lot to do with how we perceive "tone" in general. But "tone" is an annoying word in a way, and too much talked about on guitar forums perhaps.

    I agree, vocabulary in music (dare I say more so amongst amateurs/hobbyists) is used in a very general way, "Tone" is probably one of the biggest offenders, they don't have specific agreed upon definitions, this can make it very difficult to have productive discussion. Or maybe I just have OCD for things like this and it's just me that gets triggered by it :P
    Oo yea. What is good tone and bad tone? If you like a sound surely it's a good tone? Devil's Advocacy aside, I think I know the kinds of sounds people hear when they call it "good tone". Tone is just sound. And if you like it, do it again. And again.

    Think of all the guitarists who sound different. Some are trebly, some are bassy. It's all tone. It's all sound. End of.

    Ok, I really didn't want to perpetuate the tone discussion, just agree that it's ridiculous. I'm done talking about it. That's it.
    Not another...
    But have you seen those Benedetto guitars Barry has? Why won't they sponsor me too? :( :D

    But you're right, if you like it, it's good - that's a simple enough formula. That's really what I've spent (still too much, I admit) time chasing - I've found bits of kit that help me get sounds I like, and the odd thing that doesn't work out, and learnt a fair bit in the process. And it can be fun.

    Go on, just one more "wafer thin" tone comment...

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